Interview with Ira C. Smith
by Sal Monetti

While working to complete an exhibition of my art at The Leslie-Lohman Galleries in January ‘96, I was pleased to receive a call from Wayne Snellen, LLGAF’s Director, asking me if I would be interested in interviewing artist Ira C. Smith, who was in the show, "The Homoerotic Illustration," for this issue of the Archive. It was on a warm and sunny October day that I first met Ira in his Manhattan apartment — a relaxed, homey space complete with a friendly but aloof cat and a large inviting bed dominating the main room. The following are excerpts from my interview.

SM: So... You just came back from San Francisco. Tell me about what happened at the Folsom Street Festival.

ICS: I never really got to see it. I was staying with a friend and he watched the booth while I walked... I was one block from the end. So, I got to walk an entire block and that was it.

I've never been to the Festival - describe what it was like? There must have been 200,000 people there. It was packed.

What kind of art was being shown there? Well, my erotic art.

Did people recognize it? People knew who I was and they came by, asked for autographs, picked up flyers. It was great. I was there for the 25th anniversary of Jaguar Books. I had a death in my family, two deaths actually. My father died in November. My stepmother died in March. I went a little nuts and had to get away, so I went to Florida to visit my aunt, my father's sister. After a week, I heard that somebody in California was pirating my designs on T-shirts. So I said, "Well, I'm going to find out what the hell is going on." They told me where the store was on Market Street. I went there and checked into my hotel. Crossing the street, I bumped into two friends, Dave and Tim. One thing led to another and they said, "Why are you staying at a hotel ? Stay at our house, right around the corner, one block from the Castro. It will be convenient." They had a room to spare. They took me to all the places to check it out. Turned out the T-shirts were very similar, but not mine. Somebody was copying my style.

How weird. Not really. Turned out the store that was carrying them ended up buying mine. After both fairs they bought out my stock.

I guess that's because you?re the master of your own style? I don?t know, but I was grateful. I was there the first week in May and loved it. They asked, did I want to do the fairs? I said "yes." I showed my work to a bunch of people and was offered a book by Falcon Video. They said if I could submit copy with my illustrations, they would publish it. Then I stopped in Mountain View, the publisher?s of Hand Jobs magazine. I sent them unsolicited artwork and got a letter saying, "We love your work. Anything you want to give us we will publish." So I saw them in May. Nicest people I have ever met. What they did was put together a flyer for me which I am about to show you [rummages through papers and presents flyer].

Looks like a catalogue. A catalogue of 28 pieces. You can order matted prints, 14"x17," or buy the original. People can contact me by mail. I get mail from Canada, all over Europe and the US. I had a meeting with Drummer in May. They gave me their last issue, their latex issue, and the center page.

Do you work with a model? I photograph my models and work from the photos.

Your models are varying ages? Yes.

How long have you been doing this kind of work? Since April 1, 1990.

You know the exact date. That's interesting. How do you know the date? It was my lover's son's birthday. There was a magazine out at the time called Outweek...there were two ads looking for artists to exhibit work. One, at the Tunnel Bar and the other at Quick [formerly Area]. The Tunnel exhibited artwork every Sunday so I went in with the work and they gave me a show. I had ten pieces. As I was hanging them, the bartender bought one or two and I thought, "This is great!" A week later I had a show of thirty drawings at Quick. The place was packed and the cameraman for Gay Cable Network [ Robert Parker] saw my work and said... "Love your work. Bring it to the studio and show Lou [Maletta]." I did. Lou immediately put everything down and interviewed me. When the camera stopped rolling, he asked, "What do you want to do with your artwork?" I said, "I would love to have it published between now and May of next year." He went to the phone and called Firsthand and Mavety. I sold nineteen to Mavety and eight to Firsthand. By November of 1990, I was in all the magazines.

That's an incredible success story. I was in the right place at the right time. Now, I’m a regular contributor for Heat, Torso, Stallion, Bound & Gagged, Bi-Curious, Bad Boy, Hand Jobs, and several more.

So, you support yourself by your art? I try. I work when I have a show coming. The last work I did was May of last year for a June show at the Hangar. I've been recirculating work from last year. Now it's on the West Coast.

Let me ask you a question. Do you see your work as being art or pornography? I'd love it to be pornography. When someone asks me, "How would you rate yourself? What niche?" I'd say, "I'm a pornographer." I get a lot of flak about that. I'm an artist. I'm an illustrator. I would like people to really enjoy and get off on it. But if they like it, that's good too.

Tell me about your childhood. My parents divorced. I lived with my mother, my brother lived with my father. I was on very good terms with both of them. My father passed on and I’m on good terms with my mother now.

In other words, you were out to your parents? Yeah.

And what do they think of your artwork? My mother keeps saying, "Draw black men! There's no market out there. Draw black men!"

She's supportive of your career? Very. If it were up to her, she's disabled, but if she had legs she'd be out there being my agent. She was in advertising for many years, and knows what's what. Everybody she worked with was gay, so she's fine.

That isn’t true for a lot of people. No, it's not. I could talk to her about anything.

How did you come to Leslie Lohman? Oh, God. This is an absolutely horrendous story. Which version do you want?

The true version. Let me tell you something that will blow the whole thing, right? I actually drew back in 1977 and hadn't drawn until Frank [Ira's lover] who is an opera composer, asked me to do the advertising for the opera. I did the poster, designed the sets and costumes. That was 1983 and was the only drawing I did until 1990. In "77, Leslie-Lohman was the only gallery around to exhibit gay artists. I was pushy and got myself into a group show. Arriving with a school girlfriend, her parents, and everybody I knew, we entered a large windowed gallery [ the original Leslie-Lohman] with an alcove in the back. I'm looking for my work and can't find it. It was in a bin, in a dark corner, I had to really look for it. I was mortified! I went to Leslie-Lohman when they reopened in 1990 and introduced myself to discover they had my clippings that had been published and wanted to meet me. I thought, "My God! Things go full circle, don't they?"

That’s some story. I've got a better one! How I got into doing S&M stuff. Three years ago Christmas I was at The Loft and picked up a flyer for The Cellblock. It was terrible. Even they admitted it. I called and spoke to Janet and asked if she would see my work. She said, "See you Monday."This was on a Friday. It was a blizzard and I had made an appointment at Private Eyes. I arrived at 10:00 with portfolio in hand. The club was closed. Here I was all dressed up with no place to go so I went to the Cellblock. I arrived there at 11:01 and Janet was working the window. She apologized for not having time for me and suggested I show it to Lenny Waller. Lenny turned out to be a big, tough looking brute, beard, vest, cap, but nice. He ushered me past the bar where the only light was shining on a naked lady in a sling. I placed my portfolio on her stomach, Lenny held her stupendous breasts up while I flipped the pages. On the last page he said, ?You got the job. You can do our advertising" Then Lenny put her breasts down, I said, "Thank you," and the lady who was gagged responded with a muffled, "You're welcome." I later went on to have exhibitions there where I met David Weinbaum of GMSMA of which I have become a member and not only have donated my work but have done several covers for News Link. I also donate original drawings to the Center's Garden Party.

Ira, what markets are you in and where are you sold? Kaboom has ten of my illustrations on greeting cards which are available in most shops in the village and practically every card shop in California. I have computer clip-art on two different disks which are available through the M2M catalogue put out by Shocking Gray. One, ManRaw -nude men, the other Disk, Sir -bondage and leather. I will also be designing wrapping paper, more cards and, of course, working on my art. I've also designed Robyn Byrds T-shirt and sets for Gay Cable Network.

How do you conceive your work? Is it autobiographical? Fantasy? I just take pictures. I decided early on to illustrate people in the area that everybody knew so I used the manager of The Leatherman, famous bartenders, so that people will see my work and say, "That's them!" Using only existing light, I shoot a roll of 36 black and white photo's. I don?t pay my models but ask them to choose their favorite photograph and that's what I draw. When my work appears in an exhibition, I ask them to sign a release in return for copies of the artwork.

How many models have you worked with? Approximately? 200.

Have you ever thought of working in a medium other than pencil? No, I'm color-blind.

Really? What about pen and ink? No. I can't draw a straight line "can't even read my own writing. I'm happy with this.

What about works on a larger scale? Robyn Byrd commissioned a 4' x 6' mural for her house. I, in turn, commissioned a painter friend of mine to reproduce the work.

So you do collaborate with others. I sent Tom of Finland a portfolio and he answered just 28 days before his death. He liked my work and the Foundation [Tom Of Findland] currently has 150 pieces in this huge book with my name on it in their vault. When I was in LA in May, I speant two days there. I met Verhovan who opened the vaults, and I was able to hold original Tom's dating back to the 20's.

Some people think that erotic art should only be viewed in a book, not on a wall. What do you think? I'm a collector myself and have an original Rex under my bed among others" it's filled with artwork that I have no room to display.

What exactly will you be showing at Leslie-Lohman? I'm going to pull work that has been published and I have copies of all the magazines. I'd like to show ten.

They'll be on the central wall in the main gallery. The moment you walk in that's the wall you see. When I found that out, I panicked. Wayne [Snellen] is putting me with a lot of other great artists.

November 7, 1995 ? Opening night of The Homoerotic Illustration at LLGAF, a rainy, damp night that didn't prevent the exhibition from being a complete success. In attendance, among others, were Gay Cable Network's legendary Lou Maletta (with film crew) and the delightfully charming Robyn Byrd (looking great and working the room as only she can). The following day, Leslie-Lohman, and I, each got a call from Ira expressing his thanks for the exhibition and everyone involved. I appreciated my interview with him and in turn say, "Thank you, Ira."